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  #11  
Old 10-07-2009, 07:58 PM
jcc jcc is offline
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Originally Posted by can View Post
Great article--Lora. I did the "glass-spit" test and strings occured after 2 seconds! I am going to try molybdenum etc. as per the report and see what happens. Cara, since "you live to talk about B12," my B12 was 760 pg/ml but I am deficient in cobalt at 0.002 ( normal should be 0.004 to 0.020 ). I have also heard that one should test for homocysteine and MMA levels first. Can you expand on the fact that cobalt is an " integral component of B12?" Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

ummmm... I know nothing about cobalt levels, sorry .

Elevated homocysteine and methylmalonic acids levels can indicate a B12 deficiency even when B12 levels are in normal range. So, in a borderline case, these might be useful. But, these can be normal, too. So, the rule of thumb about B12 deficiency is when in doubt... use it!

Quote:
From: Highlights of the 2004 American Neurological Association Meeting
Vitamin B12 Deficiency
"Vitamin B12 (cobalamin) deficiency, whether related to nutritional or gastrointestinal disorders, remains an important cause of neurologic complaints. The deficiency may present with a variety of manifestations, including effects on any aspect of the nervous system. Unfortunately, vitamin B12 deficiency may present a diagnostic challenge in that serum cobalamin levels may be normal. Thus, the detection of elevated methylmalonic acid (MMA) may add sensitivity to the diagnosis."
Quote:
From:
Disorders of cobalamin (Vitamin B12) metabolism:Emerging concepts in pathophysiology, diagnosis and treatment Lawrence R. Solomon, 2006
"Since cobalamin, methylmalonic acid and homocysteine levels fluctuate and neither predict nor preclude responses to cobalamin, cobalamin therapy is suggested for symptomatic patients regardless of the results of these diagnostic tests."
When in doubt, don't take chances~

Quote:
From: Laboratory Diagnosis of Vitamin B12 and Folate Deficiency
A Guide for the Primary Care Physician
Christopher F. Snow, MD
"As discussed above, patients with Cbl deficiency may have overt neurologic disease in the absence of hematologic findings. Patients with neurologic symptoms and signs and a normal complete blood cell count require a modified diagnostic approach because of several considerations. First, folate deficiency is an unlikely cause of neurologic disease. Second, the neurologic disease of Cbl deficiency may be irreversible if treatment is withheld or delayed; because Cbl therapy is non-toxic, the risk-benefit ratio favors treatment in questionable cases. "
As for dosage, 1000-2000mcg is standard dosage for those with B12 deficiency. I'm not sure what you mean by really high, as even 1000mcg is 16,667% of daily recommended dose. I know people who take 5000mcg, but since my level came up nicely on just 1000mcg daily, I tend to think that much probably isn't necessary for most people. I think 2000mcg daily is probably adequate for most, assuming that the level does come up on this amount. Then, once it is upper end of range, 1000mcg daily is like enough for a maintenance dose to keep it up. I have never seen anything to suggest that 5000mcg is "too much".

On dosage, from:
Quote:
Vitamin B12 Deficiency
ROBERT C. OH, CPT, MC, USA, U.S. Army Health Clinic, Darmstadt, Germany
DAVID L. BROWN, MAJ, MC, USA,Madigan Army Medical Center, Fort Lewis,Washington

"Contrary to prevailing medical practice, studies show that supplementation with oral vitamin B12 is a safe and effective treatment for the B12 deficiency state. Even when intrinsic factor is not present to aid in the absorption of vitamin B12 (pernicious anemia) or in other diseases that affect the usual absorption sites in the terminal ileum, oral therapy remains effective.

"Although the daily requirement of vitamin B12 is approximately 2 mcg, the initial oral replacement dosage consists of a single daily dose of 1,000 to 2,000 mcg (Table 4). This high dose is required because of the variable absorption of oral vitamin B12 in doses of 500 mcg or less.19 This regimen has been shown to be safe, cost effective, and well tolerated by patients."
Regarding oral B12:
Quote:
Goldman: Cecil medical textbook --- Saunders 2000
Quote:
COBALAMIN DEFICIENCY.
"One option is intramuscular or subcutaneous administration of cyanocobalamin. . . . Oral cobalamin therapy in a dose of 1000 to 2000 mug/day has recently been shown to be as effective and possibly superior to the standard parenteral regimen. Both regimens give prompt and equivalent hematologic and neurologic responses, but post-treatment serum cobalamin levels are significantly higher and post-treatment methylmalonic acid levels are significantly lower with the oral regimen. Oral cobalamin, 1000 to 2000 mug [mcg]/day, is the treatment of choice for most patients."
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Last edited by jcc; 10-08-2009 at 12:11 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-07-2009, 09:53 PM
can can is offline
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thanks for the info
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:11 AM
jcc jcc is offline
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You're welcome .
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  #14  
Old 10-08-2009, 06:43 AM
glenntaj glenntaj is offline
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Default I can certainly see where--

--cobalt levels might be involved in this, as the B12 molecule, cobalamin, is the only molecule the body uses that actually contains cobalt.

Still, as Jcc notes, since there is no known toxicity level with B12, when in doubt--and even, often, just for protection, if not in doubt--better safe than sorry.
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Old 10-11-2009, 12:33 AM
t8tersalad t8tersalad is offline
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Default spit test

I did the glass "spit test", thank you for the link!

I had the strings right away...just when I thought I might know what's going on...now I'm even more confused.
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:53 AM
LIZARD LIZARD is offline
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Originally Posted by t8tersalad View Post
I did the glass "spit test", thank you for the link!

I had the strings right away...just when I thought I might know what's going on...now I'm even more confused.
The spit test's accuracy has been called into question, but if you have any of these symptoms (especially if you have several), you likely have CA:

http://www.candida-albicans-cure.com...-symptoms.html


LIZARD, who's also there
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  #17  
Old 10-12-2009, 12:53 PM
Lora Lora is offline
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Default Tests for Candidas

I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in 1997 and 2 years ago I read about MS & Candida, and that candida was a possible cause of MS. I found the link on-line for the spit test and so the spit test was a way for me to "test" myself at home for free and see if I might have candida. I'm not sure either just how accurate the spit test is.
My personal experience has been, I had strings in my water the first time I tried it. So I went through the 5 month detox outlined in the Ann Boroch: book "Healing Multiple Sclerosis" and I've followed her candida diet ever since. I have regained my energy and feel better overall. I've even had some physical improvements!
The web site Lizard posted has an excellent Candida questionnaire, as doe's Ann's book. When I took her test I scored 297, her legend said women who scored 180 or over had almost certainly yeast connected health problems.
The first year I was good as gold on my diet and my "spit tests" were all "floaters". Then Christmas came around again and I fell face first of my pedistal. I ate fudge, cookies, pie, cheese, mushrooms, I drank red wine and Crown Royal on the rocks, you name it, I ate or drank it and I stayed that way for about 3 months. When I started to feel fatigued I decided to check my spit, and sure enough, strings were back!
I had a face to face Intervention with myself and the verdit was to go back on the candida diet with complete conviction. I did, and then I stumbled on another book The Sugar Addicts Total Recovery Program and it has given me even more incentive to completely eliminate processed sugars from my diet. The book and her web site are full of help and tips for keeping sugar out of your life. I highly recommend it for anyone on a Candida diet. If you are curious, just go to here web site and take a look, the information is there too! http://www.radiantrecovery.com/
I have noticed also, that when I have had more than I should of approved foods that breakdown into sugar my spit tests will have "cloudy specks" suspended in the water. When I see that I up my Candida antifungal compound for a couple of days until I see my spit floating on top of the water again.
So I really don't know how accurate the spit test is, I just use it as one of the many tools in my fight against Candida overgrowth and as a way to try and gauge how I'm doing.
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